Posts by Christian guy

310

How I recently handled JWs at my door

by Christian guy in

the jws stopped by my house a couple weeks ago on a saturday morning.

i knew that with others most likely waiting for them out in the car they probably did not then have much time to engage in any serious conversation.

so i let them talk while i feigned interest in what they had to say.

Christian guy

Captain, As I have already stated, in obedience to Christ's instructions, I no longer discuss sacred things with self described atheists. I have spent much very unproductive time doing so in the past. Now, maybe if you described yourself only as an agnostic and told me that your mind was open to the posibility that the God of the Bible created the universe ......

310

How I recently handled JWs at my door

by Christian guy in

the jws stopped by my house a couple weeks ago on a saturday morning.

i knew that with others most likely waiting for them out in the car they probably did not then have much time to engage in any serious conversation.

so i let them talk while i feigned interest in what they had to say.

Christian guy

EverApostate, I've done plenty of research. Thank you. I'm sure the Bible we have today, regardless of how it may appear to have come down to us, is exactly the Bible God intended for us now to have. (I see its 70 books as evidence of this fact. Psalms was originally written and compiled as five seperate books and remains so divided in nearly all Bibles today, making our Bibles 70 books. The number 70 is always used in scripture in reference to things that are spiritually complete.)

Blondie, Interesting. It seems like the Watchtower Society tries to present a different picture of itself to people at the door than we know it to be. Your number crunching clearly proved that.

Fernando, Your linked info clearly shows the JWs admit to preaching a different gospel. Very helpful.

Giordano, As I have already stated a couple times, the words swine and dogs were Christ's words not mine. Words which simply referred to people with no appreciation for sacred things. People who he told his followers not to waste their time arguing with. I'm sorry for the offence. So you say this site might contain more unbelievers than believers. I was not aware of that. Don't worry. I'm pretty busy. I don't plan on crashing your party much longer.

Diest, You wrote, " You can continue on thinking that a book from god would encourage slaves to be subservient to their masters rather than overthrowing the system of slavery." Christ said his kingdom was not of this world. He said that if it was, his servants would have fought rather than have him turned over to Ceasar. Christ did not come into this world to end all social injustices. That he will do at his second coming. For the same reason Paul did not encouerage Christians to spend their limited free time trying to reform all of this world's inhumanities. And he certainly did not want them to be violently overthrowing governments which permitted slavery. Rather he encouraged them to spend their time sharing with people, including their slave masters, the Good News of Jesus Christ, which would greatly benefit people both now and eternally not just for the few years we live on this earth.

Jay, Sounds like you are still under the spell of the JWs. Too bad. As I have already clearly shown, they are false teachers. In more ways than I can here count. Jesus said the kingdom of God had drawn near because that kingom (with him as its king and all his followers as its subjects) was to be very soon established. Christ was enthroned as king of that kingdom immediately upon his ascension to heaven, very soon after speaking those words. Jesus Christ was "given all power in heaven and on earth" as soon as he retuned to heaven. (Matt. 28:18) No power remained for him to be given in 1914. So he could not have been enthroned a second time in 1914. Besides, if the kingdom that Jesus referred to was a kingdom that would be established in 1914 how could he have said that it had then drawn near? Unless "near" meant 1,900 years. It did not.

To understand Acts when it tells us that Paul preached the kingdom of God as well as the teachings of Jesus Christ we just have to remember what the kingdom of God is. It is God's people being ruled by God's Son. So when Paul preached the kingdom of God he was urging people to accept Jesus as their king and thereby become a subject of God's kingdom. Simple as that.

SaintLuis, Thanks. Glad to help. It felt good sharing the truth of God's word with JWs. It would have felt much better if I thought something I said got through to them. Sadly, it did not seem to.

310

How I recently handled JWs at my door

by Christian guy in

the jws stopped by my house a couple weeks ago on a saturday morning.

i knew that with others most likely waiting for them out in the car they probably did not then have much time to engage in any serious conversation.

so i let them talk while i feigned interest in what they had to say.

Christian guy

Vanderhoven,

It is interesting that no one here has mentioned the other very important way that JWs have changed the Good News. That is that they have added another requirement for salvation. Not only must we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord but we must also accept the Watchtower Society as his "Faithful and Discreet Slave" throgh whom JWs tell us he communicates with mankind exclusively. For us to deny that Christ speaks exclusively through the Watchtower organization, or for that matter for us to disagree with anything they teach, according to the JWs amounts to denying Jesus Christ himself.

I had no opportunity to discuss this perversion of the gospel during my recent meeting with the JWs. Maybe I should have found away to do so. I believe this matter is something you might want to deal with in your book. For it is, after all, the primary doctrine of the JWs and possibly their most disgusting corruption of the Good News of the kingdom.

310

How I recently handled JWs at my door

by Christian guy in

the jws stopped by my house a couple weeks ago on a saturday morning.

i knew that with others most likely waiting for them out in the car they probably did not then have much time to engage in any serious conversation.

so i let them talk while i feigned interest in what they had to say.

Christian guy

Vanderhoven,

Thanks for the kind words. The toughest part about writing a book for JWs has got to be knowing that very few of them will ever read it. Since they are not allowed to read any Bible based publications not written by the Watchtower Society. But hopefully some of their non-JW friends and relatives will pick up a copy of your book to learn how they might talk to JWs.

310

How I recently handled JWs at my door

by Christian guy in

the jws stopped by my house a couple weeks ago on a saturday morning.

i knew that with others most likely waiting for them out in the car they probably did not then have much time to engage in any serious conversation.

so i let them talk while i feigned interest in what they had to say.

Christian guy

Problem,

You wrote: kicking the men out of your home for perverting the word of God after you invited them in and they came back.....was a dick move.

Those two were almost certainly not coming back again anyway. And I had just read them Paul's words saying those who preach a Good News different from that which the apostles preached are to be condemned. So I codemned them for doing it. I wanted to impress upon them the seriousness of what they were doing, corrupting the Good News of Jesus Christ.

The truth is, I didn't want to talk to either of them again anyway until they considered the possibility that they were following false teachers. And I told them that. I showed them some "tough love" and that is exactly what I think they both needed.

310

How I recently handled JWs at my door

by Christian guy in

the jws stopped by my house a couple weeks ago on a saturday morning.

i knew that with others most likely waiting for them out in the car they probably did not then have much time to engage in any serious conversation.

so i let them talk while i feigned interest in what they had to say.

Christian guy

Island man,

You wrote: Don't confuse objectively following facts that lead to a conclusion, with subjectively evaluating facts as to corroborate a bias. Atheists have done the former. Theists typically do the latter.

Really? So you don't believe that many atheists, who by definition have already decided that there is no God, look at the world around them for more evidence to support their preconceived opinion and quickly discount any evidence they might find to the contrary?

Give me a break.

310

How I recently handled JWs at my door

by Christian guy in

the jws stopped by my house a couple weeks ago on a saturday morning.

i knew that with others most likely waiting for them out in the car they probably did not then have much time to engage in any serious conversation.

so i let them talk while i feigned interest in what they had to say.

Christian guy

Doc,

I was only quoting the words of Christ who clearly advised his followers not to spend their time discussing sacred things with those who do not appreciate sacred things. He gave that advise for a reason. He indicated that most often such discussions only result in Christians being insulted and attacked.

Foolishly ignoring Christ's advise on this matter, I have in the past had many long discussions with atheists. Almost every time I have done so I found myself wishing I had heeded his advise. For almost every time I have engaged in a discussion of sacred things with an atheist I discovered that their only reason for talking to me was to try to make all Christians look foolish. I found that no amount of evidence for the existence of the Christian God, no matter how strong, was ever sufficient to help them consider the possibility that the Bible is the word of God. Their minds and hearts were simply not open to that possibility.

So out of respect for the advise given to me by Christ, and because of my own limited time, I now avoid discussions (i.e. debates) with atheists. I don't think that makes me judgmental. It only makes me a follower of Christ. For he is the one who gave his followers this advise. And from my own experience I have found it to be very good advise.

310

How I recently handled JWs at my door

by Christian guy in

the jws stopped by my house a couple weeks ago on a saturday morning.

i knew that with others most likely waiting for them out in the car they probably did not then have much time to engage in any serious conversation.

so i let them talk while i feigned interest in what they had to say.

Christian guy

nowwhat?, You wrote: i am going to have to explain what the thousand year reign of christ and the "new heavens and earth" is about ..

I'm not sure why. We don't need all the right answers to show JWs that many of their answers are clearly wrong. And because they are, the men who run the Watchtower Society cannot be what they claim to be, God's sole channel for dispensing biblical truth.

Like JWs, many Christians are now expecting that Jesus Christ will soon judge this world. And many of them understand that following this judgment that he will rule the entire world for a literal 1,000 years. And many of them understand the words "a new heavens and a new earth" to apply to this time. So I'm not sure why you see a conflict here. Maybe it has to do with what will take place during the 1,000 year reign of Christ.

JWs may ask, "If there is now only one hope for Christians, as the Bible tells us there is (Eph.4:4-6), and all Christians will rule as kings and priests with Christ for 1,000 years, who will be left on earth for Christians to rule over?"

The reason Jehovah's Witnesses ask this question is because they teach that God will soon kill everyone on earth except true Christians. Fortunately, the Bible does not teach that. I believe the Bible indicates that when Christ returns he will judge only the Christian world. After all, two-thirds of earth's current population has never even heard the Good News of Jesus Christ, including billions of people in lands like China and India. The Watchtower Society has long taught that God will soon kill all of these people. I think they are wrong. This does not sound like the God of love, justice and mercy I worship.

One thing that leads me to believe this is an incorrect understanding of Scripture is that that the Bible tells us that "Judgment begins with the house of God." (1 Peter 4:17) Jesus also said those who will rule as kings with him will "judge the 12 tribes of Israel." (Luke 22:30) And the Bible calls Christians "the Israel of God." (Gal. 6:16) To me this indicates that when Christ returns and draws all true Christians to himself (Matt. 24:31), they will then determine who among those who have heard the Good News of Jesus Christ and not taken it to heart are deserving of death. "The 12 tribes of Israel," spoken of in Luke 22:30, I believe refers to all those who have heard the good news about Jesus Christ long preached by Christians. Remember, the literal "12 tribes of Israel" had all heard the Law of Moses, but few had taken it to heart.

Remember too that it was only the nation of Israel and its capital city of Jerusalem which were judged in the First Century, not the entire world, after those in Jerusalem who heeded Christ's words of warning had escaped. And First Century Jerusalem has long been understood to picture the Christian world, or as Jehovah's Witnesses call it, "Christendom."

If this understanding is correct, that Christ is returning to judge only the Christian world, then Christians who all have the same "one hope" will then have plenty of people to rule over as they serve as kings with Christ for 1,000 years. And they will also then have plenty of people to help come to know the true God as they serve as His "priests." For that is, after all, what priests do.

There are other ways to understand God's clearly stated intentions to have the meek inherit the earth (Ps. 37:11), and His intentions to have all Christians rule with Christ for 1,000 years, than to change the Good News preached by the apostles which offers the same "one hope" to all Christians. (Eph.4:4-6)

By the way, most translations of the Bible tell us that even those who serve as kings and priests with Christ will do so, "on the earth." (Rev. 5:10) If this is the correct translation of the Greek, and it certainly appears to be, then "heaven" for Christians may simply represent a position of spiritual authority, not a physical location. The NWT is nearly alone in translating Rev. 5:10 as, "over the earth" rather than "on the earth." It does so, I believe, to support the Watchtower Society's two classes of Christians doctrine.

310

How I recently handled JWs at my door

by Christian guy in

the jws stopped by my house a couple weeks ago on a saturday morning.

i knew that with others most likely waiting for them out in the car they probably did not then have much time to engage in any serious conversation.

so i let them talk while i feigned interest in what they had to say.

Christian guy

Ann, One of these guys was in his 20s. The other in his 30s, probably a MS and an elder wannabe. They both appeared to be life long JWs.

310

How I recently handled JWs at my door

by Christian guy in

the jws stopped by my house a couple weeks ago on a saturday morning.

i knew that with others most likely waiting for them out in the car they probably did not then have much time to engage in any serious conversation.

so i let them talk while i feigned interest in what they had to say.

Christian guy

iCeltic, I was not judging you. I was only being cautious because I was warned by Christ to be cautious when dealing with people who have no appreciation of sacred things. Jesus asked, "Why do you call me Lord if you do not do what I say?" (Luke 6:46)

Certainly atheists very often have no appreciation of what is holy because they think, as you stated, that there is "no Jesus or god." So for now I am cautious because my experience with atheists on the internet thus far with how they often treat Christians has caused me to be cautious.